The Impermanence Of Victory!
Just by chance the other night, while flipping through the TV channels, I came across a local mixed martial art competition that is held in Johannesburg. I knew one of the guys that was fighting. He had trained with us a few years back. In a subsequent interview when asked why he competes, he replied, “It’s about testing yourself. What is the point of training so hard and never seeing if your training is working?” With almost no exception I hear most competitive guys reply with the same reasoning.
Personally I have never had that desire to get into the ring and or cage to ‘test’ my skills (Although I did in my late teens because my coach pressured me into doing it + that what I thought you had to do). I have no desire to go out and look for a fight, when I can avoid one. While my feelings may differ from the status quo on competing in modern martial arts, I would never stand in the way of someone who wanted to compete. But because my views do differ to the mainstream thinking, I can to a degree act as Devil’s Advocate offering up an alternative view of training in modern martial arts that is currently and generally accepted. Readers don’t have to agree with my point of view, but I do feel someone needs to be talking about alternatives.
Furthermore I feel it is my duty as someone who has gone through the ‘hyper-competitive mindset’ to offer the thousands of people out there an alternative path to training dynamic, functional martial arts. One where they can have a ton of fun, but at the same time really enhance their performance, without being pressured into believing that unless they are competing the whole experience is pointless.
If there is an issue I have with the modern martial art competitive mindset, it is the presumption that the only way to really test one skills is if one is competing. That competing and winning is the only true measure of ones skills or the exclusive point of training modern martial arts to begin with. Again this gives the impression that for the thousands of people out there, including myself that either no longer compete or want to- that our training is pointless.
I would like to challenge this assumption, as not only narrow minded, irrational, but illusionary.
When someone says, “What is the point of training so hard and never seeing if your training is working?” it assumes that those they are competing against are ‘worthy’ of testing their skills against in the first place.
I hate to point out the obvious,
But what if the person you are matched up against is not that good to begin with? What if you just keep getting weak opponents?
What if your own game is not that good to begin with?
Did you really ‘test’ your skills in the first place?
These are only two counter arguments, that leave the statement “It’s about testing yourself.What is the point of training so hard and never seeing if your training is working?” in doubt.
Again I may sound like a broken record, but I doubt very much that competing in modern martial arts is simply about seeing if what was trained will work. This is just a surface reason. Just like any good captain of a ship knows, it is not the iceberg that is above the surface that’s the problem, but rather the mass that lies below.
The most obvious reason people compete in martial arts is to win, to beat the opponent and in doing so win some kind of recognition( Or title). Would someone compete if recognition was absent?
Recognition is public and for others to notice. Recognition and it’s subsequent cousin Titles, would be meaningless without their visibility, so one of the reasons a person seeks out a title and recognition in victory is so that others will notice them. Titles and recognition only exist as far as they are acknowledged by others, hence it is not unheard of to see martial art competitors way past their sell-by-dates- still trying to recapture the attention of their peers and or to re-awaken a fan base. It makes no sense for them to be still ‘testing’ their skill, other than if that is not the reason at all.
Seeking out a title, recognition, respect and notoriety is only a few of the many other reasons a person would seek to compete. The focus on external rewards, such as money, fame (or infamy), notoriety, acknowledgment by others, respect etc- seems to me at least to be the major driving force in the competitive mind- not the testing of skill. ‘Testing skill’ becomes a convenient excuse then to justify amongst other external rewards, the pursuit of competing for recognition and titles.
I pose this question.
If a competitive platform in modern martial arts did not exist, would people still want to practice modern martial arts or put another way, would the ability to test oneself no longer exist?
I don’t believe the answers to these questions are complex.
Those who are competing for external gratification would likely quit modern martial arts and find another competitive platform that would give them the external recognition they crave so desperately. Clearly by the statement, “It’s about testing yourself. What is the point of training so hard and never seeing if your training is working?” there is seemingly no other reason to practice modern martial arts other than competing, as this is the only real measure of success. Therefore why do it if competitive events no longer exist?
It is clearly absurd to assume that without competition, testing ones skills not longer exists in modern martial arts. More importantly and sadly so many of these guys who are competing don’t get to see the big picture of modern martial arts training. Clearly for anyone who really gets the path of modern martial arts, there is so much more to it than simply testing ones skills….in other words beating up another person in the name of sport.
Again I hate to point out the obvious, but a persons ability to have stepped into a competitive event and win in the first place, was directly due to all the hours they sparred against their team mates in the gym, the hours they put into training and the coaching they received. In a way one could say they won or lost even before they entered the ring or cage. They had already ‘tested’ their skills, if that’s what that are really looking for, way before they even entered the ring or cage. Yet clearly they don’t see it this way. This to me is the downside of the competitive path, it tends to create a very narrow vision of success.
Even Muhammad Ali, undoubtedly one of the greatest pugilists in history, recognized that the real test of his skill, happened before he even stepped into the ring,
“The fight is won or lost far away from the witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym, and out on the road, long before I dance under those lights.”
When pushed almost all competitive modern martial artists will proclaim that fighting in the gym, is not the same as fighting in the cage or ring. I am assuming the reasoning for this lies in the level of fear, anxiety, testosterone, anticipation, the unknown, and ‘can I step up and do this’ mindset associated around getting ready to compete in an event, with fans, coaches and team mates watching.
While these elements are also present in training in the gym with other people, I agree they are not likely always at the level one would experience in a competitive setting. So in another way a person is saying, taking all these elements into account, “will I be able to keep it together and not fall apart when competing on the night?”
If this is true then one could infer that without the intense adrenaline, the anxiety, fear, the risk of real injury and intense scrutiny from others during a competitive event- martial arts training no longer has a point for these kinds of people?
The reality is the idea of training for months to supposedly test ones skill in 15 minutes or less, is illusory. Illusory because everyone looses at some point. Some go on a winning streak and then end their careers loosing all the time. The champion of today is the loser of tomorrow. When Mipham Rinpoche, a Buddhist teacher, asked his father about what he thought of football (Soccer) he replied, “They’ve been winning and losing the same game for a hundred years.” So will it be for modern martial arts. The champions even from a few years ago have been forgotten, replaced with new ones of today.
If anything is real about performance, about testing ones skill, is that it is impermanent. whatever you are able to gather today in your martial art experience, will be lost soon enough. Even your ability to train will be lost as old age creeps in. This is not to say that there is a way to escape this reality (Like competing), but it helps us to stop being fooled into thinking that todays victory brings some kind of permanent reality.
As Mipham Rinpoche says, “Trying to manipulate the environment by promoting ourselves and hoping for others to fail is unpleasant and delusional. We are only as good as we are, and forcing another person down doesn’t make us any better. Competition is unstable. Even when we win, we have not really won. We always have to prove ourselves again.”
Clearly if we truly want to make progress in our martial art training or anything for that matter in our lives, “we cannot base our worth on succeeding or failing at one event.”
How many times would you then have to test yourself before you are convinced that your “training is working”?
Will you ever be satisfied with your results?
Likely not!
Simply because like it or not this kind of thinking promotes our very own samsara, the endless cycle of suffering. The reality is we are always winning and losing the same game, yet somehow expecting to make progress.
When we let go of the competitive state of mind in our martial art training- the need to constantly prove and outperform others- we are then able to open ourselves to possibilities in our martial art experience we had never imagined existed. One of those is training simply for its own sake, without the thought of gain or loss. “We realize that gain and loss is just an illusion—one that we’ve allowed to rule our lives. When we stop being baffled, surprised, or insulted by it, we will no longer experience the highs and lows that accompany gain and loss.”
When someone outperforms us, we don’t see it as “belittlement, but as an opportunity to relax into the outrageous possibility of not being attached to gain and loss.” (Mipham Rinpoche).
In this way martial arts training can help us to finally accept the impermanence of victory, of testing ones skill, and finally allowing us to simply enjoy the experience for what is.
Rodney King
This content is published under the Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported license.








To be honest though when I get in to the cage, its never because I want to see whether my techniques are working or not, like you said, I can tell that from training, although, like you also said, being in a fight to win environment does pose a few additional fears, needing your attention.
I guess the main reasons for me are, obviously to fuel my ego, we as men are going to find it hard to totally quiet our ego, I think its important to listen and communicate with it. I find fighting competitively while engaging in an active conversation with your ego is a good means of self improvement. I mean men’s pride is routed in our masculinity, when our masculinity is in danger then so is our pride, and as we all know pride is ego’s best friend, he’ll literally kill for it
The second reason, is for the adventure. I love adventures
Naim
Cheers Rodney. Always spot on and always get something from your blogs.
Thanks,
MatFlat.
So much truth is in this article Rodney! I have competed in mma,submission wrestling and bjj etc in the past all because {if I am honest} felt I must prove something to people.
After doing so like you said whether won or lost felt like I must prove it again and again and so on. Basically becoming a vicious cycle of doubt and insecurity. Whilst doing so my skills never seemed to grow physically or mentally, that is until I realized it was not important and looked to enjoy what I did instead of always out to prove.
Since this revelation low and behold my skills have gotten better and my mental focus is healthy, playful and so are all my clients and training partners. I started off when I was 5 yrs old training M\A for the sheer love of it and 29yrs down the track have the same love and passion back as I did then.
Thanks mate,
James
http://www.crazymonkeyaustralia.com.au
Thank you, Rodney, for this great article!
I apologize for the length of my response here. I’m not preaching…just openly considering and juggling all the wisdom in your post.
It addresses the subtleties of so much. To test oneself in the ring, in the cage…it’s quite (relatively) shallow in my opinion. It’s not that it’s worthless…it’s just that so many grant it much more than it actually is…like expecting a boat to take you into the sky or a hammer to do the job of a screwdriver. What’s it truly testing?
It is precisely (relatively) shallow, since it does not, by itself, test one for the true challenges in life. For those challenges, one need not step into a ring and seek victory over another fighter. You can do so, of course, and you may achieve momentary satisfaction through victory. Then you leave the ring and re-enter life which, of course, you had only momentarily just left to enter that ring. The ring is only a very tiny moment in time. And it’s the test?
But…what about the *real* challenges in life such as …caring for one’s children, being gentle (and more and more so as one ages) with one’s wife, girlfriend, mother, father, sister, neighbor, etc., doing work with the sustained, sincere intention to benefit others, working to protect others (which, in my opinion, is the bedrock of the disciplines of MA’s)? What of doing something that benefits the world, leaves it in a better place than one finds it, shines it up for the next seven (7) generations? What about struggling with the ego?
I propose that the real, final “worthy opponent” is ego. It’s relatively easy to engage in physical combat when, in all the other (far more numerous) life-moments, the *really* strong challenges/opponents (stress, finances, health, relationships, work, etc.) hammer one down. I’ve seen it way too many times…superbly trained and athletically gifted males easily capable of beating the dog-crap out of me in a ring. And yet…while they may excel in that very (very) tiny part of life, the rest of life chews them up and spits them out. Unhappiness is *the* monkey on their back (not a crazy monkey
).
For me – and this is only my opinion – life-stuff can be tested according to a fundamental assertion…Is the intention or motivation self-focused or selfless. My assertion is that the true, ultimate value of a pursuit/activity may be determined according to the degree of its selflessness.
Selflessness is spoken of highly in all spiritual traditions and even in psychological disciplines intended on helping people to deal with severe trauma (such as PTSD) and stress. If your goal is self-focused, that’s a very slippery slope, since the self/ego is (I propose) not permanent at all in the sense that it is popularly believed to be. One can see this impermanence play out in one’s own life if one takes the time to look for it.
I personally consider selflessness to be the essential meta-skill (the background or fundamental skill/context behind and underpinning the outwardly displayed skills…the intention behind it all). Pointing to this is your statement, “Would someone compete if recognition was absent?” When selfish/ego-centered intention is the meta-skill, recognition and prizes are absolutely essential. Without those carrots, the ego will simply wander off to another gratifying adventure. Conversely, what of the beauty of doing something for the sake of doing something? And doing something for how it can help others?
There’s a little secret here…when you do something for the benefit of others, you *do* benefit, but not in the way that your ego seeks. And the benefit (if that’s what you can call it) does not end up as a prized shiny-object in the back pocket of ego.
In my opinion, to truly one’s skills, the skills that really matter, for the Big Picture and not the small ring, one must acknowledge and take on every person’s greatest opponent…the ego. Living in a world in which hyper-competitiveness has been elevated into such an esteemed position (visible in everything from academia and NASCAR to MMA and the business world), this opinion is likely to provoke scoffs and disapproval.
Still…I think the perennial traditions – existing long before all of us came along – all point to the same truth of the real worth of human beings existing in how they are able to care for others (this includes warriors who care for others through protection & service). While winning the game of ego, over and over, satisfaction and lasting happiness remain ever far away. It arrives, but then always departs. Everyone should know this from their own direct experience. This tells one that the ego-game is indeed the path of lasting dissatisfaction and transient happiness.
Thanks so much for this article, Rodney. Not wanting to go on and on, but I sense your insights into the MA and life are spot on and w-a-y ahead of the curve.
Again, I apologize for the length here. I just find it so freakin’ great
that you’ve taken the MA into a direction that couples these disciplines with the wisdom of the ages.
All good wishes,
robert
P.S. I love your use of Mipham Rinpoche’s quotes.
Awesome Robert:)
An additional article right there.
Based on what you wrote I think you will like what Jet Li (Actor & Martial Artists) said here in an interview:
“What does one want to get out of studying martial arts?” he asks. “If it is to beat people up, then forget it, just use the other methods. In the ancient times it would work, but now there are guns. So, why do you want this skill? To keep your life long? To believe you are something special?”
In Jet Li’s eyes, his incredible physical skill is worthless unless he can share it or use it to explain his true passion, the dharma.
He says, “The only way to be truly liberated is if you learn to care about others, to give love and compassion.”
Robert,
You don’t have to apologize for a response like that…..at least I don’t think so. I learn as much from your responses as I do from Rodney’s articles!! Truly an awesome read!
Scott
Oh and Rodney,
Not to leave you out, because your article was awesome too and it really sparked a few thoughts in my head. If I can wrap my head around them (write them so they are understandable) then I will shoot them your way via email.
Scott
Sorry for the 3 postings, but I keep forgetting to put stuff up before I submit it.
James,
I used to compete in Martial Art tournaments a lot when I was younger and first started out, but I hated them. I used to be an extremely shy person and martial arts has definitely broke me of that and allowed me to be more confident and come out of my shell. So in the beginning as you can imagine being shy and then going out in front of a crowd to spar in a ring was quite scary to me and I hated it. I was always pushed to do it by others and I was told things like “You should be winning all these tournaments” “You should never lose to these guys”. Little did anyone know I hated doing it and was scared to do it too, but I would go forth for the sake of everyone else. I was merely doing it because they wanted me to do it, but when it was all over I felt good about myself and a little more confident. I guess what I am saying I had a different experience with competition then you did, although it wasn’t to the same level as yours and maybe that is the difference. I think I felt good afterwards because I was able to face a fear of mine and over come it too, so it was much more of a personal victory for me then anything else. It didn’t matter if I won or lost either because that was not what my fear was.
That was all in the beginning though and as time went on because of people saying thing s to me like what I stated above it started to matter if I won or lost. This was especially true as I earned higher and higher rank….because with a higher rank you are supposed to be better and better. When ever I went to compete with someone I would start to fear losing because I wasn’t supposed too….as according to everyone else and that started to creep into my personal thoughts too and feed my ego. I struggled a lot with this. I started to look at my past and wonder why I felt and did better when sparring and competing with others. I came to the conclusion that I used to not care about winning or losing and I was only doing it for the enjoyment of it.
It boiled down to me being a white belt with no expectation of being good or bad at anything and everything I did was a new and exciting experience and it didn’t really matter what happened because I was there just for the enjoyment of the experience. If I won or lost it didn’t matter because there was no expectation for one or the other. I think I was truly happy in every experience I had because ego was no were to be found.
I struggled with how to go about being able to have experiences like this when I was a white belt but at the same time live up to everyones expectations of me as being the best in the school. What I came up with in order to have both was kind of funny, but it took all the pressure off of me rather I won or lost. It worked like a charm too especially in front of a class where everyone expected me to dominate. I would simple voice to everyone that I was going to work with my opponent, go easy so to speak and give them the opportunity to score a hit, submission or win the round. This cleared all expectations I felt I had to fill. If I won and dominated the round then it was totally normal and no one thought anything different. If I lost or performed badly everyone though nothing of it because of what I said in the beginning and I was allowing them to do this. I once again was totally free to just let go, have fun and completely enjoy the whole experience no matter what happened.
Anyway I just though I would give you a little background on my experiences.
Scott
Rodney,
Thank you very much for sharing the Jet Li quotes…I do very much like them! I did not really know that he held such views.
Scott…thanks so much for sharing your experiences. Your training and experiences do seem to have led you to confront those typical ways we tangle with ego and how one may work to tame it. I admire how you addressed these struggles.
Interestingly, all the while I was reading your words, I was thinking of just how directly your experiences match many in business/corporate settings…confrontations, competitions, race for profit. I know Rodney has spoken elsewhere how CMD may translate into, and nourish, how one navigates through *all* areas of life. Your comments got me thinking along this same vein.
Rodney…I thank you again for CMD. In different ways, I’ve been wondering how all this can come together. I may be a bit “too-guru” for some (and I apologize if I come off this way). I’ve sensed, however, for a long time, that there must be a place, a way, a path, of bringing together my seemingly disparate interests such as martial arts, practical, lived, warrior values, crossfit style workouts, an ethos of service, a refusal to buy into the hyper-competitiveness typical in most MA circles, and spirituality…all seamlessly woven together by a path of mind/body/spirit wholeness…even if it all ran contrary to the status quo.
Lo and behold, it manifested as CMD!
Thanks so much!
robert
Cool Robert I think you have said what many are probably thinking!
Scott
Thanks for a great article Rodney. I love all the responses and the discussions this has created. I agree with all the points about getting in the ring, I compete in bjj quite a lot but it is so true, how do you know if you are improving or if you are just coming up against those who arent just good enough? From experience, I have been so nervous that only 30% of my game works on some case, and you think ”Why couldn’t I pass or why did he feel so strong???”, where as anywhere where else than competition you role freely and try different things that might work or not. I think it could be the environment that you are in, or even the headspace sometimes.
Thanks guys
Tom
I love this piece! To much emphasis on winning and losing in these gyms. why is the win glorified and the loss frowned upon? I always win and always lose. I have accepted both almost equally and both have become almost one in the same, for the experience is remembered.
Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I grow by hanging out here. Marcos…I really like what you say here about winning and losing.
robert
I have found that many contact combat sport forums or athletes respond almost in a hostile manner if you suggest it is possible to be ‘the best you can be’ without competing. I have met very few who think otherwise.
Surely training with “aliveness” is good enough?
Hi Adam
Well I totally agree with you. Again the hostility has little to do with, “unless you compete it’s not real” but rather has more to do with:
1. That there is a lack of secure, intelligent and positive masculinity. Any man who is secure in his masculinity, is also secure in his masculine psychology and recognizes that while the physicality of masculinity is ever present, the expression of it, without a balance of both Yin & Yang is destructive to the masculine mind.
2. Secondly MOST if not close to 99% of guys who do MMA will never compete, yet get on their high horse about, “It’s not real unless you compete”, but they are not competing themselves? Somehow other men’s proof of physical exploits makes other men (Who don’t do it) feel more secure in their own lack of masculinity.
I don’t like the term ‘aliveness’ for a couple of reasons:
1. Because at least to me, it no longer refers to live MA training, but rather pseudo-be-in-the-now, kali-eternal-energy-mysticism rubbish.
2. ‘Aliveness’ in MA is a word that is often totally misunderstood, with many thinking it is a call to a smash-fest…and if you not going balls to the wall you not training for real.
Lets rather use a term such as MA performance integrity…or something like that